IN LAIMAN’S TERMS #472
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Talking (With Myself) About Forbidden Door 2024
So Ris, it’s been a while, and we have to discuss the important issues of the day, in addition to the event that took place. Do you think 15 matches is too many for one night?
Some crotchgoblin on the plane coughed in my fucking face last weekend, and I had Covid the whole week.
Don’t you think it’s better to have fewer, longer matches than this many over a longer show?
At least apologize if your kid is boarding the plane, turns their head, and literally coughs right into someone’s face? Also maybe don’t bring your kid on a plane if they have JBLdamn Covid?
First class was pretty sweet though, despite the exhalation of the Rona making the next week rather difficult?
I mean, there was free red wine. Red Wine Rissy hasn’t reviewed a show in quite some time, and we’ll likely keep it that way. But when they keep refilling your drink and you’ve got a Lyft already set up, can’t go wrong. Other than aforementioned frustration, of course.
So I’m taking it you’re not going to comment on the discourse about matches and length of shows?
I am not. I don’t care. I enjoyed the show I watched tonight, and the number of matches didn’t play into that whatsoever. I was entertained, the main event was incredibly engaging, and I turned off the show feeling like I’d watched a good evening of professional wrestling.
Do you think the five-match setup has some merit?
Of course it does. That’s what they’re doing and it’s working for them. But I couldn’t give a shit less about ratings, attendance, or social media debates over the superiority of one over the other. It’s very seldom good faith, and I got rid of all social media for a reason. This is the show I prefer. If you like both, good for you. If you like the other, more power to you.
Do you think that reviewing the other show on a weekly basis for eight years may have distorted your vision on that?
Without a question. I still have flashbacks about the App and counting how many times one can say 9.99 in a single program. However, this show has also caught “are you kidding me” disease, so one cannot ever escape everything by changing their avenue of consumption. Can we talk about the actual show now, please?
Did you think it was odd that Kyle Fletcher was randomly added to the pre-show, facing Serpentico, who came out with Angelico’s totally not Mary Jane’s Last Dance entrance music?
If you’re like me and have a partner who is a gigantic Tom Petty fan and pointed that out to you a year ago, you’ve heard it, you can’t unhear it. But hey, Kyle Fletcher got a match. Can’t complain about that. Could do without the flashy entrance of Serpentico, but at least it goes away quickly. If we had flashy levels of the first episode of season five of Fargo, we’d be talking about a different level of migraine I don’t care to revisit.
Did anything else stand out about the pre-show? Or, Zero Hour? Whatever it’s called?
Most of those matches wouldn’t have been out of place on the regular show. Or on Collision the night before. Say what you want about the quantity of matches, and whether or not that’s an issue for you is absolutely fine, but they didn’t sacrifice quality for it. The four-way tag was fun, and it was nice to see the House of Black actually win something. Willow got a a deafening pop, showing that one can lose for a storyline without being “buried” as it were, amazing how that works.
How about Mariah May advancing in the Owen?
Anytime I don’t have to hear that garbage whiny bitchass entrance music again, that’s a bonus in my running Whose Line-ish scorecard. Mariah May being on the pre-show and Toni wrestling later in the evening meant we got double of that storyline, and two sapphodramatic segments of tension are indeed better than one.
Do you think Mariah wins the Owen?
I can’t imagine how it would go any other way. If we must have a monochromatic meltdown following enough sapphic drama to be appropriate for the month of June, it only stands to reason that things will proceed as they may.
Was MJF vs. Hechicero one of the more random matches of the evening?
That is a prime example of the patented Forbidden Door build-up formula in action. We’ve had three years and several injury-plagued Forbidden Door seasons to see how this works, and ultimately it comes out in the wash. The formula is: underwhelming buildup with moments of awesomeness sprinkled in, plans thwarted due to injuries, panic over how the show doesn’t matter anymore because of people signed different places, doubt about the veracity of the card due to all aforementioned buildup/circumstantial reasons, but ultimately the show itself ends up excellent in the end regardless.
Short answer?
Yes. It was quite random. After I saw Hechicero tear it down with Bryan Danielson on Collision a while back, being matched up with the “we split from Swerve because he actually wins sometimes” stable was not where I expected his placement to go. But, it was good for what it was, and MJF gets a decisive hometown victory on the road to facing Daniel Garcia and definitely not at all getting mixed up with Will Ospreay in some clash of HAM-based shenanigans.
Speaking of random, throwing Tanahashi in as the Scissor Ace to face the Elite?
That definitely happened.
Did Max Caster’s rap factor into that relative level of apathy?
It sounded like he was actually trying, but him saying “bitch” ten times still isn’t funnier than whenever Okada says it once. However, effort, that’s notable. But this is leading toward the Acclaimed and Billy Gunn being in the Blood and Guts match, and I can’t get excited about that.
Everyone thought that Danielson was going to advance because he’s either going to win the whole thing or lose in heartbreaking fashion in the final. Did that take away from his match with Takagi?
Forbidden Door has done something each year, I assume for other fans as much as it has for me: introduce me to names that I either don’t know, or have heard of but never seen. Takagi feels like an unironic Cloud Cuckoolander character that is ripe for a HAM award and absolutely delightful in the process. I was not familiar with him before the buildup to this show, and now I’d like to see more.
Was that your favorite example of that particular event this evening?
No, more on that later.
Do you think that they need to tone it down with the kissing in the Toni/Mariah/Mino saga?
They’re not playing it for a punchline, which is pretty rare for this sport all things considered. It doesn’t feel fetishistic, and it’s a country mile from the days of HLA exploitation, so no. Let the Old Hollywood Sapphomania Machine continue to run wild all over this product, I am here for every glorious second of it. Toni is and continues to be my favorite character on this show, she’s won a lifetime HAM award on my account, and all the old movie references just make it even more tailor-made for my particular tastes. 10 stars.
Do you think it ended the right way within the Sapphotastic context?
For those of us outside of certain social norm expectations, we may watch love stories play out in various media where the love triangle must be the central focus of yet another contrived story and be screaming out “just be with both.” While not outright proclaimed, this is among the closest to reaching that conclusion that I’ve observed, and that’s just lovely. Although with the old historical trope of analysts seeing women in love in the past and talking about how they’re just “such good friends,” maybe not throwing in the phrases “like a mother/like a sister” would make things slightly less awkward overall.
Did Orange Cassidy equal his surprising output with his first Forbidden Door match against Will Ospreay?
If he didn’t, he came close. This was another match that nobody expected Orange Cassidy to win, like the aforementioned Ospreay match a few years back. It’s hard to pull the “oh, he really can go with <insert wrestler here who is more in line with the fans that think that pro wrestling can only be two super serious angry sweaty muscly men angrily grunting in each other’s faces>” after you’ve already done it, but I think they did a tremendous job. It’s not “oh, he really does care now” that it was with Ospreay, but more that Cassidy really can compete with a master tactician of ZSJ’s level. I thought it was a fantastic match, and it was nice that at least some people from the non-AEW side of things won their matches. I know, I know, a lot of those wins are given back on different home turf, so it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out with that new Dynasty show they mentioned being in line with Wrestle Kingdom at the beginning of next year. Color me intrigued.
Where does Orange Cassidy go from here, seeing that the “all his friends have gone away” storyline is likely to continue?
Ishii isn’t sticking around, most likely. Hook is doing his own thing. Danhausen hasn’t turned on him as far as I know, but we’d have to actually have that giant slice of HAM back on our TV screens for that to happen. While some may think I only see positive in this show/company, the handling of Dr. Hausen, DDS is not among said positivity in my enjoyment of this franchise. But alas, the purveyor of HAM that I am, the show must go on.
Did Jericho losing to Hook via the Judas Effect ease your harsh opinion of Jericho’s current run?
It’s a little too close to the false sincerity in the Young Buck’s dynamic for my liking. However, it is giving Big Bill a chance to show off his HAM skills and getting Bryan Keith on TV, so those mushroom clouds have silver linings. I have really enjoyed Samoa Joe showing Hook the way, as this doesn’t feel like another random pair-up to stall Hook’s ascent up the card. After the three-way Heels Love Trios Titles drama concludes, there’s no excuse for not having this Triad bringing some heat back to those titles.
Was there any point to going through the last several weeks of qualifiers and a ladder match just to have Jack Perry win anyway?
I don’t know, are people still talking about Triple H’s Reign of Terror that begin with being awarded the gold belt in 2002?
I can’t say for sure, but probably?
Then, there’s that. I guess. The ladder match was definitely a ladder match, and it was entertaining for what it was, even with its mostly predictable conclusion. Thankfully we did not also have to see yet another replay of Dante Martin’s gruesome injury. I don’t know what makes them think we want to see shoot injuries on repeat like that, but that’s the way the world works.
Nothing else about that ladder match?
I wish Christopher Daniels would tap into that humorous side of his that I’ve been lucky enough to see and interact with in person once upon a time. He’s such a charismatic, likable guy, I’d like to see more of that than just typical face authority figure balance to the heels running amok. But he’s on TV and not just to lose a match with Matt Sydal, so that’s something.
You were saying though earlier, about getting to see someone you didn’t know who you now enjoy even more than Takagi earlier?
I need more Chilean Goth Demon in my life, holy shit. Now, we know I have a type, and nobody needs to remind me that I have a type, and I get that I have a type… But holy shit, can Stephanie Vaquer go! It seems a lot of people learned that during this match too, because she completely turned the crowd in her favor by the middle of the match, and given with whom she was in the ring, that’s JBLdamn saying something! Yes, Boston in New York, yes sports teams rivalry, etc. etc. etc. But Stephanie Vaquer put on a fucking show tonight, and Mercedes leaned into that in that way that veterans of the business know how to do. I’m not sure if it entirely invokes Swerve in Our Glory vs. the Acclaimed levels of “maybe call an audible?” because there’s no way in hell they were doing that, but I also would not have complained if they did. I need more Stephanie Vaquer in my wrestling, I’m so freaking glad I know about her now.
Did the big surprise return upstage that match at all?
It was an excellent match, and the crowd was super into it. There are few things I love more than a surprise return pop, and Britt Baker’s was a long time coming. At least that’s one fewer name on the list of “any update about X” superchats on Wednesday’s Fightful show, but alas, “any update on Jamie Hayter” for the 87th week in a row will continue, as if SRS wouldn’t have mentioned it if there was. I admire people who can answer the same question over and over again without getting as annoyed as I do, but that’s why my job involves not interacting with customers. The way it should be. It is nice to see Dr. Britt back, well distanced from the Outcasts/Originals feud that stalled in place for months and then never was. Britt adds to an already completely-revitalized division, and with the much-improved level of presence they had tonight, I can only hope it remains that way. But also, MORE THAN ONE MATCH ON FUCKING DYNAMITE ALREADY, PLEASE!
Does it take away from Jon Moxley’s reputation to lose cleanly like that to someone people mostly don’t know?
If Jon Moxley losing one match against an incredibly talented performer like Tetsuya Naito takes away from your opinion of him, that’s on you. Mox is Mox at this point, it’s not like the BCC being the unbeatable badasses but also losing almost every single time in a feud. Mox on his own is a force and is pretty much untouchable by reputation at this point. The way it should be. He got his run with the title he wanted, and now it goes back home. I didn’t expect him to hold onto it for very long, as I wouldn’t for anyone holding an overseas promotion’s belt. It was really good though, and the show’s consistent output of entertaining wrestling remained true, then went up a level here at the end.
Did you think it was too early for Will Ospreay to be facing Swerve Strickland for the title? Weren’t both of them in a position where they couldn’t lose?
No, since one of them did? That’s a weird complaint, considering how many complaints there are about matches with extremely predictable outcomes, but alas. Consistency. I’d rather have this than another show where no winners whatsoever are in doubt.
Was the match itself as good as you thought it would be?
It was better. I’d say these are two of the best in the world, but that phrase has been so fucking driven into the ground on this show that I’m just begging for some kind of moratorium and rephrasing process that also strips commentators from saying “are you kidding me?” 38 times an hour. The wrestling itself though? There aren’t words for how good these two work together, which isn’t a surprise at all, but seeing it play out before your eyes is still beyond spectacle.
Did Don Callis’ involvement stain that glamor at all?
Coming off a show where nearly every match had shenanigans and interference, this show was the antithesis to that method of booking. This was pretty much the closest to an interference spot we got, and we also had to see poor Nana begging off angry Will with a screwdriver. My hearing isn’t good as previously noted, but I think he was saying “come on, man. It’s me!” That’s fantastic stuff right there. As is Will’s refusal to use underhanded methods costing him. It’s similar to what I think they tried to do with MJF last summer, but in a much different way.
What about Ospreay flinging himself helplessly into Swerve toward the end?
That was the capstone of a truly epic story where even losing cleanly doesn’t take away from the amazing run so far (and will continue to be.) If losing a brilliant, evenly-matched encounter like that ruins things, then what the hell is even the point of wrestling? Neither of them lost anything from this brutal spectacle, and Will helplessly flinging himself into a Hidden Blade is better than another defiant double bird before the end. Then seeing Swerve consoling his friend, who is likely still very upset about losing a grandparent, was very sweet. Despite how they made it personal in the storyline for a few weeks, they’re still friends in the end, and they put on a ridiculously great wrestling match in the main event. Will Ospreay will be AEW champion sooner than later, but it will not be a run from debut to the championship, which I also think is a good thing.
So, overall, was this the best show of the year if you liked it that much?
No.
No?
No, it was good. Really good. I had a good time, I got to see some names I didn’t know much about, and the show was perfectly constructed for what it was. It wasn’t the greatest, but I have very few complaints as well. I like this show’s brand of wrestling, and despite some lackluster buildup, Forbidden Door succeeds yet again in delivering on the final result.
Does Toni Storm get the HAM of the Night yet again?
Toni getting HAM is a given, and she’s in her own category. So anytime I don’t give it to her, it’s also presumed that she also gets it if she’s on the show. But her opponent, Mina? She deserves her own spiral slice sent her way. So does Takagi. It’s hard to get HAMs out in a show that has very few promos, but anytime someone can make me laugh by their reactions, facial expressions, and/or physicality in the ring? That’s some good HAM in my book.
I hope those of you who watched had an excellent time. Thanks to those of you who consistently email me or otherwise reach out, I appreciate you all. My schedule should be a bit lighter now, so I’m gonna get back into some weekly reviews as I’m able and have the energy to do so.